Giant Sequoias (World's Largest Trees!) with Wendy Harrison

Hello and welcome to Golden State naturalist, a podcast for anyone who's ever seen something so awe inspiring that it made you think, you know, being so tiny and utterly dependent on everything on this planet is actually great. I'm Michelle Fullner. And today I'll be talking with Wendy Harrison about the most massive and possibly most jaw dropping trees in the world Giant Sequoias. I can't wait to share this conversation with you. Because we get into all kinds of cool things like the ancient origins of these trees, what kinds of plants and animals live around them and depend on them something called Sequoia blood, how they spread their seeds, what's going on way a pie in their branches, their relationship with fire, the heartbreaking story of the mother of the forest and where they can be found today, so you can go experience them for yourself really quick. Before we get to that, I wanted to remind you that this is episode 10 of 12 in season one, so after this one, there are just two episodes left until the season break. During that break, I'll be traveling across the state and recording new interviews for you to hear in season two. I've already got some exciting ones lined up in Los Angeles, which I'm really excited about because I haven't been down there for the podcast yet. I think you're really gonna love those ones. Also, did you know that you can directly support the podcast by becoming a patron that membership starts at $4 a month and you get all kinds of behind the scenes extras and bonus content. In the next few days. I'm going to be posting a story from my conversation with Wendy about a close encounter she had with a large and usually elusive animal in the forest as well as more information about other animals that can be found among the giant trees. The $4 on Patreon helps more than you know for someone who creates this podcast completely independently, including research writing, reaching out and traveling for interviews, recording, editing, and promoting all with basically no budget and mostly after the three and four year old naturalist living in my house are asleep. It's a one woman show and I'm so thankful because last month Golden State naturalist hit 20 patrons and $128 My next goal is to cover the cost of the podcast which averages out to about $250 a month. If you want to be part of helping me reach that goal and get all of the cool extras I mentioned before you can find me at www.patreon.com/michelle Fullner. That's Michelle with two L's and Fullner is fu l lne are also thank you to everyone who has been sharing this podcast with your friends, family, coworkers, social media followers and hiking buddies. Last month Golden State naturalist hit the top 2.5% of podcasts in the world which I cannot actually comprehend. That's all possible because you're out there telling other people about it and leaving ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen that helps the show pop up in the charts where more people can discover it. If you're liking the show. Please keep sharing with others and leave a rating or review if you haven't had a chance to do that yet. If you want to see what outdoorsy things I'm getting up to. You can find me on social media at Golden State naturalist on both Instagram and Tiktok. My website is www dot Golden State naturalist.com. But now let's get to the episode Wendy spent 30 years working as an interpreter at Calaveras big trees state park where I met up with her for this interview and she also lived there for a good chunk of time. Now that she's retired, she runs the California naturalist program at the park through the Calaveras big trees Association. And while she wasn't speaking on behalf of the state park at the time of our interview, she did write all of the trail guides there during her time with them. At one point during our interview, some hikers walked past us and one of them was reading the trail guide out loud and I felt like I was secretly sitting there with a celebrity except if celebrities were also like Goddess Guardians of the forest. But without further ado, let's get to the giant trees with Wendy Harrison on Golden State naturalist.

WH

The sequoias don't occur in stance of just Giant Sequoias. They belong to the mixed conifer forest. So at this elevation, you're going to see white for incense cedar, Sugar Pine and ponderosa pine. So those are the main things that you would find here.

Calaveras big trees is just below 5000 feet in elevation. And I met up with windy in the North Grove there back in the end of March.

WH

And then behind us, our branches have this giant sequoia tree that fell down. So they look like logs because they're quite large, but Giant Sequoias have really large branches. But yeah, there's some research that's being done now where scientists are examining the tops of the trees and getting up there because people haven't really studied that environment before and they've been discovering new species of insects and other little like mini forests that are growing up there were crazy. Yeah, we're, you know, birds of pooped out a dog would see it in there like a dog would grown up in the top. So that's pretty wild.

I looked this up and I couldn't find anything specifically about Giant Sequoias. But I did find an article in Atlas Obscura called canopy soil is an exciting frontier in forest science all about what's going on that we can't see from the ground way up in the high branches of old growth forests. So listen to this excerpt which describes the canopy in the Hoh Rainforest in Washington state, it's impossible to tell from the ground but on the branches beneath the trailing moss is a whole lot of dirt. This engulfing mat of organic matter is a soil formed from falling leaves airborne particulates and moisture that accumulates in the nooks and crannies. Well off the forest floor built up over decades or centuries. This canopy soil provides a home for insects, fungi, birds, worms, and epiphytes, which are plants that grow on other plants. And much of this life never touches the ground. It's an aerial ecosystem, a network of life that's only possible in old growth forests. Because the stands of Giant Sequoias are also old growth forests, it makes sense that the same thing would be happening there. And Wendy has actually been up to the branches in the Giant Sequoias, so she would know firsthand, but when you're in a stand of a mixed conifer forest, and you're seeing sugar pines and incense cedars, and all kinds of other conifers, how do you know which one is a giant sequoia, and the width of the branches or the diameter of the branches? Is that one of the ways you can tell a giant sequoia? It is,

WH

what I clue in on most is the color of the bark. I mean, the branches are pretty high up there, right? Which actually is another feature, it's a fire adaptation. Oh, it would take a very big fire to get into the crown of the tree

doesn't provide its own ladder fuels. Right, right.

WH

So the way the trunk kind of tapers at the bottom makes it so that if a tree fell against it, it would roll away from it.

Oh my gosh,

WH

the bark is very fire resistant, but the color of the bark to me is is really what stands out when I'm looking kind of looking at the whole forest, and especially in different kinds of light. They almost glow.

Wow, I bet sunset and sunrise are really beautiful. Yes,

WH

yeah, really nice time to be here. The reason the trees are this color is because of the tannin that's in the bark. So tannin is something that we eat, you know, we drink coffee or tea or eat grapes, but it's a an insect repellent, but it also is a fire retardant.

What I really love about the way that Wendy describes and identifies Giant Sequoias is that you cannot separate their appearance from their relationship with fire. On the site of the Redwoods League website. There's a section that says giant sequoia can thrive in a world of frequent fires, the thick bark insulates living tissue from low to moderate severity fires that burned frequently. In the past. These fires were started by lightning or by native tribes that used fire as a means of managing and caring for the forest. These fires regularly reduced fuels, the pine needles, fallen branches and other woody debris on the forest floor and cleared out some of the smaller trees and brush making extreme fires less likely, the average giant sequoia is almost as tall as a football field is long and has a base of 20 to 26 feet in diameter. Now, it makes sense to me that as a tree, if your strategy is to get that big, you're gonna need to be able to be resistant to fire because you can't put all that effort in just to get burned down. You don't want to do this quick regeneration cycle if you're a large tree like that. What's really interesting to me though, is that despite the gigantic size of the Giant Sequoias, their cones are actually very tiny. And so what are you holding you pick something up when we stopped here,

WH

I picked up the male cones and the female cones of a giant sequoia. And the male cones are little tiny pollen filled just little bumps at the ends of the needles. And then the female cone is the one that's about the size of a chicken egg that has the seats in it. So these are wind pollinated, and they tend to disperse the pollen in the winter. And then it takes to this is also unusual, it takes two years for a female cone to develop Oh, and develop seeds that are viable, and then the seeds can stay in the cone for 20 years if it's still attached to the tree.

You heard her correctly, the cones can stay attached to the tree for 20 years and not drop until conditions are right for new trees to begin growing or seeds to begin germinating. Wendy had told me at one point that the tiny little seeds look like a flake of oatmeal and the reason why they can stay viable in that cone for so long is the same thing that gives the bark its distinctive color and fire resistance.

WH

And one of the reasons is this tannic acid. Oh, there's one there's a seed,

it does look like oatmeal. Like a non smushed oatmeal, like Irish oats or something, right.

WH

So that brown stripe in the middle of the oatmeal is the seed. And the rest of it are the wings. Oh, in case it's floating down

tiny, tiny, tiny seeds. Very tiny.

WH

Very, very tiny. So, one of the things I where I like to describe Giant Sequoias is as they are the largest weed in the world, because that's what weeds do. They make lots and lots and lots of seeds. And they like disturbed areas where they can reach the soil. Yeah, so that's why Giant Sequoias need fire. So there's these little tiny seeds can get down to the bare soil. And one of these mature tree can have 10s of 1000s of cones on it. Wow, just waiting for that perfect condition for the seeds to be released.

And where would you see them? I mean, they're it's so far away, and they're the size of American Egg. So when you may not even see them, but But would they be kind of toward the end of the branches? Are they all along?

WH

They're kind of out towards the ends? I don't know if you brought binoculars? I did. Yeah. fish them out. Yeah, it's, I mean, they're kind of far up there. Now they're like 100 feet up.

Definitely bring binoculars. If you go see Giant Sequoias. I think I see some. Oh, they're going in like a cluster. Yes. Okay.

WH

Yeah. And then in the cones when the seeds are in there for 20 years. There's also this tannic liquid in there. And if you find a green cone and you cut it open, it kind of drips out. Whoa. And so that you would never guess that. No, yeah. So it's the same red for Auburn color. And that Sequoia line. Yes. John Muir called it Sequoia blood. Oh, and wine actually interesting. Yeah. And he actually made ink out of it and wrote some of his journals with

it. Oh, my goodness. Those hold up. Like yeah, you can still read that. Yes. Incredible.

WH

Yes, but that is what keeps the seeds viable in the cones for 20 years is the tannic liquid. A preservative. Oh, uh huh. That's cool. Yeah. Some of the John Muir archives are down at ULP in Stockton. So I was able to get copies of the journal pages with the made with the Sequoia ink blood ink.

And what colors the ink is it's

WH

kind of a brownish red. Yeah, kind of dries more brown. Yeah,

that's so fascinating. I love that. Yeah. So that same tannic acid that's on John Muir's journal pages that you can still read, also preserves the seeds while they're inside of the cone. But while the seeds can stay viable inside of the cone for 20 years, I found one source explaining how they don't actually stay viable for all that long once they're outside of that cone. It says in contrast, with most coniferous seeds, a large majority of seeds of giant sequoia die from desiccation and solar radiation soon after reaching the forest floor, especially during the summer, in one study, viability of seeds removed from brush cones and placed on the ground dropped from 45% to zero in 20 days, seeds collected from the forest floor showed an average viability of 1%. So for the seeds to be able to make it it's really important that they stay in those cones, and then they're released when the conditions are right for them to germinate. Now, if you're anything like me, you're probably curious, not just about the Giant Sequoias, but about the interaction of all of the different life forms in this type of mixed conifer forest when he told me about all kinds of interesting animals that live there, including bears and mountain lions and birds, and all kinds of cool creatures, but one of the ones that really stood out has a relationship with the cones that we were just discussing. A little squirrel.

WH

So this is a chicory that you're seeing chicory and not a squirrel. It's a squirrel. Okay, Douglas squirrel. So I know people always think I'm saying chickadee. But chicories are one of the animals that are really tied to the Giant Sequoias. And so they make their nests in in the giant sequoia bark, and they harvest the cones. A giant sequoia can have 1000s and 1000s of cones, but the seeds are really tiny. And so the chicories harvest the cones in the fall, and they hide them all over the place. So they have some to eat in the winter. And when they eat the cones, they actually just eat the cone and not the see really Yeah, so they eat the cones and they are one of the animals that helps disperse the giant sequoia seeds cool throughout the forest

and and as part of that because they've broken it open and so then they can spread more easily,

WH

right? Yeah, once they harvest the cone, if they cut a green cone off the tree, that cone dries out and then so that opens up the cone and the seeds come out and wherever they've hidden the cones all over the place to go look for later they've planted some seeds So yeah, so the chicories will harvest the green cones, some of them will dry out and open up and release the seeds. They'll eat the cone scales that will also open up the cones so the seeds will come out.

And was that chicory? full grown? Yes, it was was so small, like if you compare it to like a grey squirrel that you're used to seeing in Sacramento, right? It's like half the

WH

size. Yeah, much cuter. Yeah, they're really cute. was really cute, and they don't hibernate, so they are active all winter, which is why they're stashing food away.

Why to survive through the winter. Yes, if you want to see what these chicories look like, I'm going to be posting a video I took of them on Instagram in the next couple of days, so check my feed for that. Now. After Wendy and I had explored the North grow for a while and looked at what we could see in the forest, we found a bench to sit down on for the full interview. In that interview, we get into how the trees RELATIONSHIP WITH FIRE has changed in recent years. How similar and different Giant Sequoias are from coast redwoods, the full lifecycle of the trees, the history of logging the ancient range of Giant Sequoias and the few places in the world where they can still be found. Spoiler alert, they're all in California. So stick around, it'll be a quick break.

Hey, before we get to the full interview, I wanted to tell you about an account I've been following for a while on Instagram and give them a quick shout out discover California that's discover underscore California underscore posts about tons of fun outdoorsy stuff to do in the Bay Area and Northern California. If you like this podcast, you'll enjoy the stuff they post to I know I'm constantly adding to my list of places to visit based on their posts and videos. So go give them a follow on Instagram. Okay, now on to the full interview. We're just kind of admiring the trees here. And I have so many questions. The first one is just how did you become interested in nature in general, but then also like, how about Giant Sequoias in particular?

WH

Well, my family did not go camping. We just didn't do any of that kind of stuff. But when I was in fifth grade, we did a lot of field trips, like like nature field trips, and then our teachers did like an outdoor Ed thing in the summer. And I just remember just going this is awesome. This is this is what I want to do. And then my family actually bought a place to stay up here in Arnold, not too far away. And my dad really loved being up here. And we came to the park a lot. We always came into the park when we would come up to visit. So that was probably like when I was in high school. We started coming up here and we just loved the trees loved being at the river. So I really got to know the park then. And then when I went to college, I decided I wanted to study environmental studies. And I was pretty sure I didn't want to be a scientist. But I loved the experience. I had had outdoor programs, teaching people and sharing nature together and being outside. Anyways, I lived on the coast. So I lived in the coast redwoods and really fell in love with the coast redwoods and then ended up working in an Outdoor School on the coast for quite a while. And anyways, I threw a bunch of twists and turns ended up here. And I was like, wow, I get to work with the big trees. Sequoia is so

cool. And not only that, but you wrote, I wrote the

WH

trail guides that trail guides. Yeah. So when I was a student, a college student, I wrote a trail guide for one of the UC preserves. And so when I came here, they said, well, we don't have a trail guide for the South grove. Can you write one? I was like, I'll try. So yeah, I've written the trail guides for all the trails in the park. And it's really, the research is really fun.

That is a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm sure you learn way more than you can even fit into the trail guide. Yes, yes, by the time you're done. That's very cool. So if you come to the park and you get a trail, looking at Wendy's work, and you segwayed perfectly for me, well, you're talking about the coast redwoods because I was gonna ask you about are these trees related to coast redwoods? Are they how similar or different are they? So

WH

they're in the same family. They're in the Cypress family, okay. And there are kind of other random trees in like Asia and other parts of the world that are also in that family. There's another Sequoia the mega Sequoia. That's from China that is also related to the coast redwoods in the Giant Sequoias and they all three kind of share are similar characteristics.

So these three trees are most commonly known as the redwoods. Because the proper name is really hard to say it's Sequoia Adi. I think I had to look that up. But anyways, the meta Sequoia is also known as the dawn redwood. But get this, it is disingenuous, it loses its leaves in the fall. I actually had no idea until five minutes ago that there were conifers that were deciduous. So you learn something new every day. Both of the redwoods that are found in California are evergreens. But what other similarities and differences do they share?

WH

There are some differences. So one is the climate that they live in. So Giant Sequoias like to be between four and 8000 feet elevation where it snows in the winter is dry in the summer, the coast redwoods definitely are in the fog belt. And they range from Southern Oregon, I think down to Monterey County, and they're just in that narrow strip right along the coast where they they actually take water in through their leaves from the fog. Yeah, the sequoias do anything like that? It doesn't get foggy here. Yeah, if you go to both places, it feels a lot drier here. When I worked on the coast, it just was a lot moister and damp and

feels like the forest is dripping. Yeah,

WH

I don't know if it actually is, but it feels like that when you're in. Yeah.

If you listen to the oak tree episode, you'll remember that this is why my guest is so widely said that you really shouldn't plant coast redwoods anywhere except for the coast in California because especially with the drought conditions that we've been having and climate change, they really just take too much water to survive in drier climates.

WH

And then the coast redwoods can they have smaller cones with less seeds in them, but they can also regenerate from roots, the roots in the ground and kind of sprouts that if they stay wet at the base of the tree. Giant Sequoias really don't do that. They really just regenerate from seed. Their leaves look pretty different. For coast redwoods have more needle like leaves. Giant Sequoias are like little pointy in the field guide that says all shaped like a W now. So like they're just little pointy scales almost along the ends of the branches.

So those were the sounds of me politely having no idea what an awl was, but I looked it up and it's a small pointed tool for piercing holes, especially in leather. It's like just a pointy piece of metal with a handle. So imagine the pointy metal piece except not metal and and with scales and no handle. And it's green. It looks sort of cylindrical. Really, really if a pencil was like super narrow scales on them. One might even say all shaped.

WH

Yeah, that's actually one way you tell the inset cedar foliage apart from giant sequoia is Giant Sequoias is is round cylindrical and the instant Cedar Looks like somebody ironed it flat. Oh, okay. Yeah, but similar types of of leaves. The Giant Sequoias are the most massive trees in the world and the coastal desert the tallest trees in the world. Okay,

so we got a friendly rivalry going on.

WH

And not not related to them. But in California, we also have the oldest trees in the world, which are the Bristlecone pines. So California.

We knew we loved you.

WH

It's a fun place to be a naturalist.

Okay, so the oldest tree in the world is believed to be this bristle cone pine known as Methuselah. And Methuselah is 4853 years old. That tree is still alive and living on the eastern side of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in the Inyo National Forest. So that's also in California. But how long a giant sequoia is live well, according to the National Park Service. The longest live Sequoia that's been confirmed, lived to be 3266 years old, and that was in the converse basin grove of Giant Sequoia National Monument. So Giant Sequoias are actually the third longest lived tree species in the world after Bristlecone pines, and then Patagonian Cypress is but I was curious about the whole lifecycle of Giant Sequoias from the very beginning to the very end.

WH

But at the beginning, like this time of year, the pollens blowing around, if a tiny piece of pollen interacts with this little tiny female cone, the female cone will start to grow and like I said, it takes about two years for it to to mature and have viable seeds inside. And you know, there can be 1000s of cones on an individual tree. And so you know, 10s or hundreds of 1000s of cones within a grove like this, and the trees hang on to those cones until the conditions are right Wait for those seeds to grow. And so could be a fire where the there's a lot of seed release that comes opening after that it could be some being stashed away by the chicories. But once that seed makes contact with the soil, then if it has the right moisture, the right amount of sun, the right access to soil, then it will start to grow. And so it's not too hot, not too cold. Not too wet, not too dry.

A baby bear is Goldilocks, yes,

WH

anyways, then, you know, it takes a while for the seedlings to start to grow. And for a giant sequoia to start producing viable cones of its own takes I have heard around 75 years. And at that point, they're still not really wide. But they try to put a lot of their growth into getting tall so that they can get taller than the other trees here. And that's why they keep their foliage at the top because they're taller than the other trees have their photosynthesizing way up there above everything else. And once they get tall and can start doing that, then they start getting wide. And one of the questions I always got here is, you know, somebody who point to a tree and as well How old is that tree? How old is that tree, but you can't really tell just by looking at it, it depends completely on the conditions that it's growing in. So the trees that we're looking at right here could be 1000 years old, or they could be 2000 years old. It's just and you know, in order to look at the rings, I mean that you cannot put an increment bar into a tree this big, then they just it doesn't work. There's too much pressure pressing on the increment bore

that works with the Bristlecone pines, which are a lot smaller, right? But these guys are too big right to measure it. Wow. So

WH

the one one thing that we do have are fallen Giant Sequoias. So there have been studies of the tree rings. And fortunately, unfortunately, here we have the big stump. So that was a tree that was cut down a year after the scruff was discovered. And it was a money making scheme. But what it'll has allowed us to do is count the rings of that tree. And it was the biggest tree in the grove. The gotta go. And it was yeah, of course, of course. So that tree was 1244 years old. And it was the biggest one in the grove. So biggest doesn't necessarily

mean all this right. Right? Maybe it was right by that little creek, maybe you had a great little water source there. And go in.

WH

Yeah, and that is one of the things about these trees is they can be 1200 1500 years old, and they are still growing. Like they're still putting on new rings every year. And on that massive tree. That's a lot of wood to be to be producing, you know, 300 feet up into the air and 30 feet in diameter. And they're still producing new cones every year and new foliage, so they're still actively growing at that age

I am. So they would have to get a lot of nutrients from the soil, right like to be able to produce that. So is there something special about the soil where these trees thrive?

WH

Well, at least here Calaveras big trees, these trees are within their own watersheds. So there has been in the past plenty of water, they've been kind of protected from high winds because of the size of the watershed. And yeah, it's it's rich soil. The Roots also are not really deep. They're kind of shallow roots that can grow up to 100 feet or more away from the tree. So you know, a root system spreading out into the soil could cover an acre. Oh, my goodness, is what I have heard. So all

of them next to each other, there's got to be this incredible interlocking web situation happening,

WH

right? And then there's the micro RHIC that are associated with the roots. And that makes a huge difference in what they can take up from the soil and in terms of nutrients. So yeah, there's a lot going on under the soil that we can't see that people are really learning about as we speak. So yeah, that root system is very extensive, with little fine tips always growing and bringing more nutrients back so they're pretty amazing.

Okay, so just to break that down a little bit more. Miko means fungi and rise up means root. So Michael Ryza, or the mycorrhizal network is just that interaction that's happening underground between fungi and plants. And so it's actually a symbiotic relationship where the fungus gets nutrients that are produced by photosynthesis, and the plant gets minerals and additional water from the fungus. These micro Raizel networks exist in the mixed conifer forest where Giant Sequoias are found, and it might even have something to do with their success as the largest tree species on Earth starting from the time when they're teeny tiny baby saplings. But what about the other end of the lifecycle of Giant Sequoias? What causes some of these trees to die eventually,

WH

typically what causes them to die as falling over? And you probably notice a lot of them have burned scars from fires hundreds of years ago. And sometimes those can make them a little more unstable so that if the ground gets really saturated with water, and then there's a high wind, then they'll become weakened and fall over. Sometimes those areas can be infected with fungus that also weakens them around the roots. Up until recently, fire has not killed very many mature Giant Sequoias.

Okay, so I mentioned earlier that the relationship between sequoias and fire has changed. Just to be clear, it's the type of fire that has changed not the sequoias, I found a page from the National Park Service that begins by saying the importance of fire to Giant Sequoias cannot be overstated. And then goes on to explain that fire has been part of the lifecycle these trees for time immemorial and when Europeans came in and started suppressing fire, very few new Giant Sequoias grew why the page goes on to say before the arrival of European settlers in the mid 1800s. successful establishment of mature sequoias depended on fires intense enough to kill the tree canopy in small areas, allowing enough light for young sequoias to grow and thrive. Giant Sequoias are a pioneer species, they are among the first to take root after a disturbance occurs. Another consequence of the lack of periodic fire is that burnable material or fuel accumulates when trees and shrubs become more dense and long sticks and falling leaves or needles build up on the ground, higher severity, fire is more likely to occur. And that's exactly what happened in the 2020 and 2021. fires in Sequoia and Kings Canyon national parks. The same page says that between those two fire seasons, somewhere between 13 and 19% of large Giant Sequoias in the entire Sierra Nevada population were lost, which is to say all Giant Sequoias it's hard to overcome the recent history of fire suppression combined with drought but thankfully, both Sequoia National Park and Calaveras big trees state park have had prescribed burns recently, hopefully that sets them up to survive what's likely to be another bad fire season here in California. But fire isn't the only thing that kills these trees. Here's windy explaining other ways. They end up falling over.

WH

But yeah, it really has been getting weakened around the roots. And yeah, it was super saturated soil and high winds or, or a heavy load of snow will cause them to fall over. Yeah,

it kind of makes you wonder how long they could go. If everything was just right. You know, that never happened to a tree. So you talked about their range being on the western side of the Sierras, is that the same as their range was before European contact? Way.

WH

Long time ago, they were all over. Or their ancestors were all over the northern hemisphere. But by the time the European immigrants arrived, they were pretty much where they are now. In the southern Sierra. There was a lot of clear cutting of certain groves. But yeah, their ranges really stayed the same. That North Grove where we are right now is almost the north end of the range of Giant Sequoias. There's only one grow farther north.

Oh, where's that one?

WH

It's in Placer. County. Oh, and it's Yeah. And it soon? Yeah, it's it's hard to get to it's really remote. And it's tiny. It's a tiny Grove, or the trees this big and the trees are not this big. So I have a lot of questions about that. Now, yeah, like that publicly accessible. It is.

Check it out now. So I think of Sacramento where I live and Placer County is being very close to each other. But for me to get to this grove of Giant Sequoias from my house, it would take two hours because a lot of the drive is On a really windy road called mosquito Ridge Road. It's the same amount of time and a lot less carsickness for me to go to Calaveras big trees. So that's the northern most and then how far south do they extend? Because I know we've got like Sequoia National Park right south of here.

WH

So Tulare County, county, yes, about the southern southern extent. Okay, so it's not

that big of a range.

WH

No, it's not. In fact, there's so many times when I'm driving back up here from being you know, visiting family or whatever down in the Bay Area. I'll be driving up going, there are no sequoias anywhere else than where I'm, you know, I'm just going to this one little spot and that's where they are. There's, they're just not anywhere else.

And when you're here, it's hard to imagine that because they dominate the land, right? And they're so big and beautiful. So you talked a little bit about how, you know the range has stayed the same, but there was a lot of logging within that range. How many of them survived the logging industry coming through to even know

WH

Well, I'm sure it's something I could look up. It's it's not something I have at the tip of my tongue. But yeah, there were like the converse space. is one of the famous ones. And they cut just about every single, big tree down and they built railroads in there and put the big logs on them. Because I mean, they're so massive they, they had to design ways to get the trees out. Once they, I mean, cutting them down was a whole nother thing to figure out because they're so big. But luckily, they figured out that these trees are so old that the wood really wasn't useful. Because it was old and kind of brittle. And they're so massive when they would fall down. A lot of times they would just kind of break apart. Right.

Okay, good job trees. Yeah. shake them off. Okay, I have a sad question for you. Can you tell me about the mother of the forest?

WH

Yes, I can. So you are referring to dead standing? That is is that it? Right there that? Yes, we can we can see forward? Well, I'm going to back up a little bit with the history. So the North Grove was the first place where Europeans really learned about the Grove, and people started coming here right away, to see the trees and, you know, news spread all over the place. And so, you know, people were just building roads, so they could come here and see the trees and that sort of thing. So that was in 1852, that it was discovered. And it really was related to the gold rush. There weren't that many European folks here before then just some random explorers. Some of them later on said, oh, yeah, I saw those trees, but I forgot to tell anybody about it. And they probably did, but they were busy trying to survive. So anyways, 1852 Augustus T. Dowd wandered in here saw the trees encouraged other people to come up here. And then it became known one year later, a different group of people not doubt didn't have anything to do with this came and decided they could make money if they remove the bark from the biggest tree in the grove, which is what is now called the stump as they removed all the bark to make into a traveling exhibit where they could take two big cities and charge people money to see it. So that was in 1853. And then they cut that tree down after they had taken the bark off. So the next year

is that big stump you can go back to right now. Yeah,

WH

yes. And that's right at the beginning of the trail, and that that's something pretty much everybody who comes to the park sees,

we keep referring to this just as a big stump, but that really doesn't do it justice, you could host a line dance on this thing. And that

WH

one ended up not being financially successful and ended up completely burning up in a fire. And yeah, so that that never was a success. But the next year 1854 another different group of people found the tree people called the mother the forest, because apparently it was so beautiful and, and big, and very methodically removed the bark and eight foot sections up to a height of 116 feet. And they were they had scaffolding around it they I think it took them several months to do the work. And then they packed it up in boxes. And they ended up getting it to New York, where it was on display in the in the Crystal Palace for one summer long summer. And then they shipped to London and the bark, they would reassemble the bark into the shape of the tree. So it was in the Crystal Palace in London, until 1866,

you can actually see a black and white photo of the bark of the mother of the forest tree on display in London. If you just Google it, I highly recommend doing that.

WH

And then that entire thing burned down along with the bark,

that it's almost like there's a curse on hurting these trees. What isn't good, the bark is gonna burn up in a fire just leave us alone.

WH

Yeah, the interesting thing is, the tree is still standing. It's been there since 1854. So kind of shows you how stable these trees are. And the way they're built still has tannin in the woods. And then there was a big fire that came through that part of the grove in the early 1900s. And so it's completely black. Now, there are some big holes where branches used to be and still has animals that nest in those big holes. And so there's you know, there's still supporting other kinds of life for several years there was a family of ravens that would make a nest up in the top hole and raise a family up there. And that was really cool. It see all the sticks poking out. Yeah, the baby you know when the baby ravens got too big the parents would sit in the next door tree because so it's you know, when you you're out here in the grove and there's these beautiful magnificent Giant Sequoias and then you see this leather of the forest which is now a black snags still standing there it's yeah, it's it's quite sad. The one thing I will say is we did not this grove did not get logged like the grove In the southern Sierra, this is considered one of the earliest tourist attractions in California continuously used tourist attraction. And at the time it was privately owned the trunk of the stump that fell over that was used as bowling alley. And yeah,

the one that's on that creek, they use that as a bowling alley.

WH

Well, they put like built a bowling alley on top. So yeah, it was a very different way of looking at

WH

trees and nature. And yeah, and it really was a wilderness. There were grizzly bears. Yeah, so it really was a wilderness and people really were trying to survive make money. Some people did really well in the Gold Rush and other people found other ways to survive and make money.

At this point, I think I must have hit my limit for hearing about exploitation of these trees, because I just totally changed the subject in a big way. Any interesting invertebrates that come to mind,

WH

there is a beetle that lays eggs in the giant sequoia cones at the tops of the trees. And when the larva hatch, they start to eat their way out of the cone. And that is also another way that the Giant Sequoias cones, get these dry spots where they open up and the seeds fall out. Wow. So that's the find the toadies beetle? Yeah, so that's

the trees. And does that happen way up high. So then those seeds kind of spread out in the in the breeze potentially.

WH

All right, yeah. So they have those little tiny wings. So they can, you know, float a little ways on the on the wind away from the tree. Wow.

Do you ever come here and see any tracks? Of of interesting animal? Yeah, yeah, it's

WH

the best time to see tracks is in the winter when there's snow. And it's really interesting to see how much activity there is you're still in the winter. And a lot of times, it's the chicories the squirrels, you know, running from one tree to the next. And then you know, all of a sudden the trucks disappear into the snow. Coyote tracks, coyotes can be active all winter, when they do kind of like a single file track. They want to use the same track, not make new tracks with all four paths. So they'll reuse some of the same ones just to conserve energy and how sometimes you see bear tracks. Here in the winter. I saw some earlier this winter in the snow

interesting. So there's like before they're hibernating or something or I

WH

think there may be some bears that didn't hibernate this winter, because it was I want to say it was in December, when I saw that

Wow. So late enough to where you would think they would be

WH

right. And there's so many animals that are here, it's hard to think seriously,

and so interconnected. These webs have probably starting with those invertebrates or the or even the decomposers.

WH

And then also there are creeks and streams here and rivers in the park. And so that also is kind of the lot of invertebrates in the water.

Do those run all year are they seasonal?

WH

So the creeks in this creek in the North Grove is seasonal. The South Grove Creek sometimes that that's big trees Creek sometimes that will run all year just depends. Beaver Creek and the North Fork of the standard sauce do run all year. Cool. Yeah, really? Are they're actually beavers. They're not anymore. Ah, yeah.

Oh, man. It's heartbreaking. All right. What do you wish that people knew about these trees?

WH

Well, I do wish the people realized how rare and unique and special they are. Think I shared with you some people are like, oh, yeah, I've been to big trees. But when you really think about these trees, they they're so rare in the world. I mean, they're just only in these very few groves. And the other thing is they just individually they're so old. They're ancient. But they also it's like their time travelers in a way. Yeah, because they were so widespread. I mean, they've their predecessors first arrived 200 million years ago. So you know, you can kind of imagine maybe what what the world was like then you know, because a lot actually a lot of the same plants were in that community with a Giant Sequoias then so there was a great quote and I can't remember who said it their ambassadors from another time

would that be considered like I don't know if I'm using this term correctly, but like a living fossil? Yes. Some

WH

people have called them that. Yeah, living fossils yet when you go to a lot of the fossil, you know, the prehistoric sites in the southwest that have fossil trees. A lot of those are sequoias. predecessors, a Sequoia their ancestor trees. Yeah, yeah. Cool. What do you think people can do to help preserve these trees or take care of them make

sure that many generations to come can can see them?

WH

So I think when people come here, they don't realize that when they go home, the things they do at home can actually help or harm the trees. So I one thing I am hoping is that we can help people see that what we do on a daily basis impacts these trees, you know, lowering our carbon footprint, however we can, in our own situation is going to help these trees.

Something really powerful that I heard said about tackling climate change is yes, do all of the individual things that you can to be a good steward of the resources available to you and to not be wasteful. But also think about how you can be impactful kind of one step beyond yourself. So can you influence your HOA to make certain decisions like planting native plants? And can you make phone calls to your elected representatives, things like that, that can amplify your impact. But what about how to take care of the trees in a more immediate sense,

WH

you know, when you come visit the trees, just be respectful. I've seen people doing a lot of really disrespectful things out in the forest. And so I would just say when you come see the trees, everybody wants to climb up on the bark and take their picture, but it actually impacts the root system when enough people do that. So visit them with respect and care. And the other thing is, there are a lot of ways to learn about the trees. And if you're visiting them, you can attend programs here at Calaveras big trees. We have a nonprofit that supports the educational interpretive programs at the park and they put on seminars, they invite all kinds of speakers here, they host the California naturalist program, they fund some of the positions from the interpretive staff so so going to those kinds of things. And also financially supporting organizations like that are great ways to help the trees Save the Redwoods League is a great organization to support and they have a lot of information on their website. And then there's a new coalition, which is called the giant sequoia lands coalition. And they're a group that formed recently because of the people are really so worried about fire now in the grove. So this is a group of land managers that's coming together to really try to work together and and try to protect the trees. So they also have a website with a lot of information about some of the current things related to climate that are happening. And then one of my favorite organizations is called the Association for fire ecology. And they do a lot of research about fire, particularly in the west and fund student scholarships and have conferences and so lots of information on there too. So

very timely, very important. Yes. So a lot of people's minds right now.

WH

All the time. All the time. Yeah, it's not just here, obviously, it's all over the place. So Right. Yeah.

All right. Last question. Okay, what about these trees or this place? After all these years working here? What about it just still takes your

WH

breath away? Oh, boy. I mean, it's just being here and being immersed. Like we talked about forest bathing, I guess that's what you call it, just being immersed in the grove and hearing the life realizing these trees are ancient individuals, you know, thinking about all the things they've experienced in the last 1000 to 2000 years just being in this one spot. It just puts a lot of things in perspective for me, you know, when I worried about something or and just the light is so beautiful. It's it's just magnificent.

You really could find a spot and just watch the light all day. Changes. Well, Wendy, thank you so much for your time and your expertise and your knowledge. Yeah, fantastic. Oh, it's

WH

been a pleasure. This is also I forgot one thing. This is the only California State Park that protects Giant Sequoias Wow, they're all all the rest are federal. Oh, my goodness, national parks national parks for a service. There's a national monument. There might be a private privately owned Grove still, but I'd have to look at look that up. Yeah, but this is the only California State Park with Giant Sequoias. So

come check it out, come to your state parks. There really is something special about walking among these giants. I love what Wendy said about being there helping to keep things in perspective. While I'm out there. I feel like I can get some distance from whatever problems are currently on my mind. Not only that, but for me, a certain magic seems to permeate the forest and I can't help but write whimsical children's stories in my head. If you haven't had a chance to see Giant Sequoias yet look up the grove that's closest to where you live and plan a trip if you can. It's so worth the time and effort to get out there. Something interesting from my week is that I got to go out with a friend and forage some wild elderberry And then make elderberry syrup out of them. You might have seen my video of this on Instagram, but the part I didn't show was then using the syrup to make elderberry whiskey sours for a group of friends. And I just have to say that I recommend every single part of this process, partly because actually going out and collecting food is meditative, partly because you get all kinds of unique delicious things out of it. And partly because I don't know I think it just feels right as a human to collect and prepare wild food and to form a direct connection with where your food comes from and the place around you where you live. Just promise me not to eat raw elderberries of you do this because they're poisonous until they're cooked. Also be really mindful about only taking a little bit of what you find so that there's still food for wildlife and so that the plant can regenerate itself also if you are out foraging this summer I would be delighted if you tagged me in a social media post about your fine so I can see what you're out there gathering. Okay, thanks so much for joining me and for sticking around to the very end of the episode. I'll see you next time on Golden State naturalist bye.